I’ve always been encouraging when it comes to my kid’s going on to college. I think it’s important, for the life experiences and the education. But I was reading this article on NPR the other day and was pretty shocked at the findings.
“Just 18 percent of recent grads with $50,000 or more in student loan debt ‘strongly agreed’ that their education was worth what they paid for it. An equal percentage, 18 percent, ‘strongly disagreed.’
Now I get that some kids can leave college with much less debt, but with rising tuition fees, I suspect that number is becoming the norm {which is so sad!}. Students who were able to receive scholarships or grants and leave with zero to minimal student loan debt had more favorable things to say about the impact of their degree. But they are not the majority. Most kids leave with debt.
So if our kids leave with a large debt burden and they leave feeling it was a waste of money, the question is, is college worth it? While in the past, the trend has been that a majority who leave college with degrees feel their education WAS worth it, that thought is shifting.
“Among recent graduates who received their degrees in 2006 or later, the picture was darker. Only 38 percent ‘strongly agreed’ that college was worth it.”
Now I’m curious if you’re willing to share. Did you take out student loans? If so, how much? Was it worth it? Did you need it get the job you currently have? Would you go back and do it all again knowing what you know now?
~Mavis
Diana says
For the work I’m doing, yes, I needed the degree. I’m an accountant. I paid for my degree with grants, scholarships, working a part time job and taking extra courses so I could finish my degree one year early – thereby eliminating one whole year of living expenses.
Is it worth it now? I would not go to college if it meant coming out with the huge debt these kids have. Most have not had vocational counseling to determine if their degree is even in demand or useful to get a job that will support them. I find that such a waste.
Mike Rowe – of Dirty Jobs fame – has a foundation called Mike Rowe Works where they award scholarships to individuals to train in jobs that are in demand and pay well.
I really don’t think college is for everyone. Yes, it’s an experience to help grow and gain maturity, but so are a lot of other things.
Ally says
For me my degree was barely worth it. Right now I work in HR in a large government organization. A degree was not a requirement for the job. While I graduated without student debt thanks to a well timed divorce by my parents my husband was not as lucky. He graduated with around $80,000 in student loans and is not currently working in his field. He’s a stay at home dad. For us it was the right choice considering the fact that if he was working we’d be losing money for child care and the loans. Both of us feel that unless you are getting a graduate degree it’s not worth it. A bachelor’s is not worth as much as it used to be unless you are going into more of a trade type field like engineering, accounting, electrical, etc. I also find while I get a small supplement ($480 a year) for having a degree it’s not enough to make it all balance in the end. If college is truly what a child wants to do then great, however, I definitely feel unless parents are paying there shouldn’t be pressure any more. It’s not as valued as it was 20 years ago.
Amanda says
I got my degree in Electrical Engineering, and left school about $70,000 in debt.
Was it worth it? Yes. But I need my degree to do my job. If I was in a situation like my peers are and making just above minimum wage, I would change my mind. Fortunately, engineering is in demand, and I enjoy it. I feel like I lucked out.
Also, my car loan has a better rate than my school loans.
Katie W says
Overall, I don’t think college is worth the cost. I went to Texas A&M, a state university well known and revered for it’s engineering school. My engineering degree cost about $80,000 total ($20,000 a year). I lived on campus all four years so that included my room and board. I received a few grants, but a drop in the bucket compared to the total cost. I graduated with just over $30,000 in student loans, and my parents took on the rest. I think for me, the cost was worth it. I graduated with a high demand degree from a university with a great reputation (especially in Texas where I live). I also entered a job market where the starting salary is great! I’ve been paying on my student loans for almost 4 years now, and with throwing everything I have on it, I’m just a few months from being out of debt. Even if I came out with a higher chunk of my total cost than I did, I think it would be worth it for my situation.
I do think though that the fact that anyone can just go to school on student loans means the universities have no reason to keep costs down. Even at my school they are constantly building bigger and better things and adding on and on and just passing the cost onto the students. While it’s great to have nice facilities and lots of services and extras, it’s just not necessary.
Katie W says
I have to add on, I have so many thoughts on this issue.
I think state schools can be worth it when you are paying in state tuition, and if you are getting a degree that will be useful and easy to find a job. I think private schools are NOT worth it, unless you go on scholarships or are very wealthy and can pay for it. I paid 80k for my whole degree, that could easily be just one year at a private school.
I also think that more kids should go to technical schools. Those jobs exist and the current workforce is growing old and will retire one day…
Lastly, I think college is a good route if you can go to a 2 year community college first and then transfer. I am trying to talk my little sister into this. It’s cheaper, and often easier than taking your basics at a university. For many kids, they need the transition from HS to junior college to a university.
Aggiemom says
We live in CS, and our daughter is planning on going to TAMU to save on room and board. We are trying hard to not take out loans. I received my MA from TAMU but with no job, will be paying off my loans until I die. Not quite how we planned it, but it happens sometimes. I’m just fortunate that my spouse has a decent job…for me, it was a waste…I could have a house on a farm for what we paid for my education. Better counseling could have helped me find money…I was completely unaware of what was available and was a first generation college grad. I’ve turned finding scholarships for my kid into a full time job this year. She has to write the application, but finding the money is key.
Katie W says
My husband and I are in CS too! My sister really wants to go to A&M next year, and I’m hoping she’ll decide to go the Blinn route for a couple years and live with us to save some money.
Karen says
I didn’t leave college with debt as I was lucky my father paid for school. BUT…. I have a degree in math and I can’t even help my daughter with her homework. She is in fourth grade now and I haven’t been able to help her since first grade math. So with common core math taking over…. I want a refund for what I paid for my degree. LOL
Henrietta says
Hi Karen, I have a degree in engineering and I am able to understand common core, there are lots of websites out there that have tutorials to help parents so they can help their kids. These have been lifesavers to me. Ask your kids teachers for links to online parent common core help. It goes much smoother when parents understand what is going on and can help their kids at home, good luck!
Melanie says
My daughter is a freshman at a state university with pell grants and scholarships her first year with dorm and meal plans cost 2000.00 . Her scholarships run out next year and it will cost us 3000.00 for the year . She worked and I contribute 75.00 every two weeks to a educational fund for her between her summer job making 9.00 an hour and my contribution for the last 2 years we have enough for foe her freshman year and 1 semester her sophomore year . She will again work over the summer to pay for her Junior year and hopefully we will cut out her senior year. What helped up the most is in high school she took as many college classes as she could at a discount of 200.00 per classes versus the 1300.00 a. Class now
Katie W says
I took a lot of college credits in high school too! Definitely worth it, if it’s available to you.
Kristina says
Of course, as any college graduate should know, the numbers don’t lie, but your feelings might. According to Forbes Magazine (2014), the average college graduate earns $830,000 more over his or her lifetime of work than people with only a HS diploma. Feelings are really a terrible way of figuring this out. All you have to do is some simple math to figure out if it was worth it, and it sounds like for most people it is (though I understand the sticker shock of seeing that student loan bill at the end of it all).
Dana says
$830,000 after taxes of just 15% leaves $664,000. if you minus what you paid for an inexpensive four year degree, – not even counting if one needed a graduate degree -, of 30k, that brings it down to $634,000. Assuming starting full time work at 21 and retirement at 65 that’s spread out over 44 years which is $14,409.00 a year in added income, which is about $277 a week. This is the bonus of an incredibly inexpensive education.
If you go to a more expensive school, that’s $664,000 minus $80,000 for your degree, leaves $584,000, spread out over 44 years is $13,272 a year, which is about $255 a week. A nice amount for sure, we could all use and extra $255 a week net, but not the huge amount the first figure implies.
This is, of course, if you choose a lucrative profession. What if you go on to get your Masters Degree in Social Work? I guarantee you won’t make the supposed $830,000 more over a lifetime.
The average pay for Social Workers in NYC is 50k. I made more than that a year as a waitress during my college years back in 1995 – 2000.
So, it just depends on what your goals and priorities are.
Dana says
Sorry, that should read ‘taxes of 20%’. Not 15%.
Sarah says
I earned a general associate degree after ten years of occassional college classes and my husband has taken a few college classes debt free. I worked at a medical center for 15 years before becoming a SAHM and my husband is a self taught software engineer. We both appreciate education and have a passion for learning, but we do not believe college is for everyone; it honestly wasn’t for us. (We’re in our very late 30s.)
I feel very sad for people who are enslaved to student loan debt and who are disappointed in their employment situation. It seems people have been fed a lie that degrees guarantee employment or wealth. We are a single income family and with only a high school diploma my husband earns greater than twice the local average household income. We are happy and have everything we need and fortunately his career is very stable.
Our children are 6 and 2. We encourage them to love learning, work hard and be good stewards. At this point a college education is not an expectation of them, but if they do go to college it will probably start with debt-free community college while living at home.
Brianna says
I don’t feel college was worth it for me. I spend 5 consecutive years in college, got a Bachelor’s in Biology with Honors. I held down a part time job to help with my expenses. I had no scholarships for college even though I was valedictorian of my large high school and I applied for more than 150 of them! I didn’t come from the right family….my parents were married, not a minority, successful business owner and professional, had a lot of assets, and I was considered too well off for any aid. My parents had no intentions on paying for a dime of my education despite what the FAFSA said their contribution was to be. Anyhow, I had to use private lending for college and my consigner took out a life insurance policy on me so they wouldn’t get stuck with the debt if I died. The private loans start accumulating interest variable right away, whether or not I was still in school. I didn’t go to the graduation ceremony because I didn’t have the money to participate. I graduated with $80k in student loan debt and several job leads that turned into empty promises. I have never been paid for my degree and make the same amount as a joe with no college degree. I probably would have chosen another major. 75% of my monthly pay went into the student loan debt and I paid it off on my 30th birthday. My husband has a HS education and makes 4x more than me. I now have 3 kids and I am in no way going to tell them they have to go to college to be successful because it isn’t always the case. I was made fun of at my last job for having a degree and never being promoted to anything higher and have been a mockery of many. Degrees don’t necessarily equal success in my field. I would have done things very different if I could do it over again.
Kattmaxx says
So far I have two kids who got bachelors degrees with no debt, and two in process of it, and a younger one that will go in 4 or 5 years. My best advice is the Running Start(may be called Jump Start or something similar in your state) program in High School. Classes are free at your local community college. You just have to pay fees and books(rent those!).With 5 kids and one very average income we have always let the kids know that our contribution is room and board while they are in school or working to pay for school. Our oldest two took a gap year at 19 and worked almost full time to save up for Junior and senior years. Then they had part time jobs or student jobs during the school year. The middle child just worked lots of hours in the summer and part timed school and work during the school year. Other than some small cash gifts and some tuition breaks from a job that had that benifit they paid for all of it. Time wise the graduated at the same or near same time they would have because of the head start Running Start gave them.
Mary Ann Isaksen says
I wasn’t raised in a household with money. College was never an option. It wasn’t even something that was discussed… ever. In fact, I was a high school drop-out in the mid-70’s. We’re not rich, but we do well enough for ourselves as self-employed small business owners in Southern California (although, the business climate here is pretty tough).
We employ my two nephews and a great-nephew, so we all have a lot of motivation to keep the business in the black.
My comment is about one of my nephews. He has always been the artsy type and decided to go to school while working for us part-time to get his degree in Graphic Design. He managed to get his degree, but was unsuccessful in obtaining a job that made him happy (can’t exactly be artsy much when you’re told to do just what the client wants all the time), so he has now CHOSEN to work for us full-time resurfacing bathtubs and counters for apartment complexes permanently, even though he has massive student loan debt. Very sad.
Jen says
I am working on my 4th degree, so I think I have a lot of experience with this question, lol. My first degree, a BA an Anthropology was funded by a full scholarship. It did not get me a great job, and I was broke. If I had had to take out $50K for that, it would not have been worth it. I ended up in nursing school a few years later, and that 2 year degree doubled my income. 100% worth it. I got my bachelors in nursing completion, and am now on my master’s. I won’t say the knowledge from my first degree was without value, but if I had had to pay, I would have been better off doing so after my more practical nursing degree.
I wish my parents had given better advice than “Study something you find interesting”. I am telling my own kids, “Education is a tool and an investment. Invest in good training first, and don’t waste your money .” If they want a gap year, or work a little first, that is OK. I didn’t “know” what I really wanted until I was 23.
Bobbie says
I needed a degree for the job I have, and I graduated in 2009. I have 80k in student loan debt and will be paying for another 7 years at least. I had to take the loans and work part time in order to afford to live…looking back it was not worth it. I could be in a better financial position if I would have learned a trade instead. I work for state government and raises are few and far between so it was definitely not worth it for me to go to college! It was fun, though 🙂
Staci says
For job security in the future, I think specific vocational training is your best bang for your buck – 2 year RN programs, Physical Therapy Assistant, Xray Technicians, Diesel Mechanics , etc. My husband has 2 years of college education, I have 6 and he makes double what I make. And yes I am still on paying on those loans – only $6,000 left!
Jeanie says
My husband and I both graduated without debt 25 years ago. He is using his degree and I have used mine but in a freelance capacity. We decided when we had kids that we would put them through college debt free. Our daughter received a sports scholarship to a private college that paid about $40,000 of the total $120,000 bill. She is using her degree and earns about $70,000 one year out of college so it was worth it. She is currently acquiring her Master’s using her employer’s generous advanced degree reimbursement program.
Our son is a sophomore at a state college. We pay approximately $20,000 a year without housing expenses. He plans on getting his Doctorate so we have a long road ahead. He will have to have a doctorate degree to be a practicing psychiatrist which is his passion. We want both of our children to know the freedom that comes from living debt free.
We only are able to do this because we have lived in the same house (4 bdrm, 3,000 sq. ft.) for 22 years and paid it completely off 10 years ago.
Planning for the future really helped us.
Carole says
I definately do believe that college is worth the money. I never had the opportunity to go to college and now I wish I had. There is only business opportunities for those with college degrees now. You apply for a job and if you don’t have one, you are pushed aside. My husband had his job outsourced after 28 years with the company he worked for and only having an associates degree (2 year) he does not qualify for jobs. My job with the government only promotes those with bacheolr’s degree’s or higher. I am stuck in a low paying position with no chance of advancement. We made sure both our sons were going to college. I want them to get the opportunities we did not. Yes we have to take out a few small student loans,and luckily their grandparents left them some funds to afford college. They both got a few scholorships, even though we don’t fit the profile for most applicants, ( minority, low income, single household, ect) but they are going to get farther in life than we did……isn’t that the point? For you children to do better than you?
Katie W says
I’m sorry to hear that about your husband. I have been in a hiring position before, and if someone came to me fresh out of a college with a 4-year degree, I would probably choose your husband’s 28 years of experience over them.
Jillbert says
College was totally worth it for me — and I’m not talking career or money (I’m a homemaker) but more about life perspective and what I learned. I paid for my own education (worked and went to night school then finished full-time after marriage). I have an English degree and have never “used” it. Still, I believe it was so worth it.
Right now, my oldest child is a senior in high school. He will go where he gets the best scholarship deal — there is no way I would ever encourage taking on debt for his education. Either we (husband, son & I) can afford to pay for it or we can’t. He has been saving, we have been saving and he’s scored a great scholarship to our state university so far. He is likely to be a history, language or English major and not likely to earn big bucks after graduation. I want him to go to school to learn and follow his interests without regard to how much money he will earn upon graduation. Having no debt will allow this.
Diana says
I knew going into college that I needed a degree that would get me a job (i.e. teaching), rather than a liberal arts degree that would be enjoyable but not targeted to a specific job or career. I had to pay for all of it myself, including living expenses, so it was tough. But it did result in a teaching position, that I worked for four years until my finances were stable enough for me to pursue a law degree, which cost me $100k, including the opportunity cost of the teaching salary I gave up for those three years. Immediately on going to work as a beginning lawyer, I tripled my teaching salary, so all was made up in due time. I started evenings classes for an MBA, but I didn’t like the prospects of what it would net me further on graduation. MBA offerings seem to be an over-priced money-harvest for colleges, with little or nothing to offer other than the right to use the initials ‘MBA’, for the money spent.
In short, college is a business proposition. You have to go in knowing what you need out of it, and then come out with that. It also an education on adulthood, beyond what is learned in the classroom.
Don’t get me started on the college book racket. There should be a RICO investigation into how the college book business is driven by professors and publishers.
Jeanie says
College textbooks are a ridiculous racket. It’s really shameful!
KC says
College isn’t a good fit for everyone. It’s probably, by nature, a better fit for those who can get academic scholarships than for those who can’t. I also definitely endorse going to the best state school offering in-state tuition discounts rather than a private college unless you’ve either got the money in hand or some generous scholarships. It can also be helpful to do community college beforehand (or college-in-high-school for an even cheaper route!) and transfer the credits to further help with the economics of the situation.
That said, the conversation should probably not be 100% about what you financially put in and get out of it. The intellectual environment (which is optional; you can be smoking pot at 1 in the morning and having “philosophical conversations” about cheetos or you can be having actual philosophical conversations; as far as I am aware, you cannot be simultaneously doing both) is *great* for some people; it can open up a lot of options for people, bring new ideas into focus, and also be a lot of fun. Also, hey, I met my husband in university; it can be a real boon, especially for nerds, to “meet their people” – some of whom you’ll stick to for the rest of your life. Additionally, as a group we all benefit from having a more educated society – even just having most people be able to see through manipulation of statistics, logical fallacies, etc. would, one would think, improve our governmental selections and consumer choices.
*That* said, I wouldn’t recommend significant debt (or, at least, debt without a clear awareness of how one might be able to get out of it later and how it will limit one’s options). I would expect the people who feel most like it wasn’t worth it would be the ones who 1. have the highest debt loads, 2. got less out of college because it was more just the next “thing to do” and not something they really valued inherently as a process in addition to a piece of paper, and 3. were sold a bill of goods about how this was the way to an Easy, Fulfilling, and Lucrative Future and then graduated into the “wait, it’s *how* hard to get even a tedious job? the unemployment rate is what? and the older generation is largely blaming us for not finding jobs quickly???” recession. The distance between expectations and reality did not work out well for a large group of people, frankly. Whether or not most people in that situation will, in fact, still come out financially ahead of where they would have if they hadn’t gone to college is to some degree an unsolvable question; to the degree to which it can be guessed at by comparative salary totals for different groups (which, of course, would have been different if people had made different decisions en masse)… well, that analysis will have to wait a few decades.
Trades are a great option for many people. I personally think the ideal combination with trades would be a few basic English classes to bring writing and analysis skills up (easier to get clients and not get cheated by contracts that way), a “simple statistics and life math” course including stats, compound interest, how to avoid bank fees and do simple budgeting, and how people commonly lie with numbers, and then whatever additional training is needed for the specific direction a student wants to go in. I’d love it if high schools were graduating everyone with basic life competence in English and math, but they don’t appear to be, and it seems like it ought to go somewhere so that people aren’t cheated as much in daily life. Some amount of education can also help provide versatility and awareness that you *can* learn more, which is helpful when entire fields of work disappear or are outsourced, although I think that awareness can be accomplished in ways other than college courses.
Anyway, it’s a good idea to determine, so far as it’s possible, what people’s required conditions-to-thrive are, and aim to go down that path (just as you aim to put tomatoes in full sun!). But it’s hard to figure that out individually at 17/18 without a lot of life experience under the belt already…
Claudette says
KC, I think this is a great analysis. College isn’t a guarantee of anything, but can be a great tool for those who know how to use it. And it’s full of people with regular people problems, which means not all of them are going to understand the value proposition or how to make the most of it. (This holds true for both the students and the teachers.) FWIW, I believe common core is trying to teach some of the “basics” you are talking about at the the lower levels–a solid foundation in math and critical thinking skills. It’s just hard for some of us old fogeys to relate to the methods because they are so new.
Cheryl says
We took out a loan to pay for my dd to go to culinary school. Twenty months, over $50,000 for apt. rent and tuition for 5 semesters. Books and her knife kit and baking kit were included. Just got a job after her four months of externship at a high end resort making $9.50 a hour which will rise to $10.00 after her four month probation. She will never make alot of money but she loves baking, so we are happy for her. My ds just started college this year, If he lives on campus all four years, it will cost over $80,000. He is majoring in Music Technology, and Business. He wants to record music, both his own and others. He will either make a good living or his degree might not help at all. I agree alot of kids don’t need the degree but unfortunately, employers want you to have one. Cheryl
Marcia says
That’s a good question. I went to college and so did my husband. But I was the first in my family to go out of high school. (I had one older sister go nights for 10 years and one go in her 30s). We were poor, and rural and my dad didn’t exactly support the idea of women going to college. Luckily? My parents divorced when I was in 10th grade. That changed things.
I opted to go to the best school within driving distance. I got scholarships, but still had work-study and loans. And even though my parents didn’t know anything about college, the $$ made me nervous. So going into my degree in engineering (from a top-10 engineering school, a private school, which is now $60k per year), I decided to apply for ROTC scholarships. I ended up with a 3 year scholarship (didn’t know enough about them to apply for 4 years). So in the end, I had to borrow money equivalent to one year’s tuition (it was some the first year, and then had to borrow room and board the next 3 years).
Even though my starting salary in the Navy was 1/2 of what the rest of the engineers were getting, by the time I was out 5 years later I was at the same salary and had gotten a master’s out of the deal. And engineers get paid decently. (Although I hit the “glass ceiling” at about 40, so that’s a bummer.
I really REALLY got lucky that I was frugal. I think there should be a reasonable “calculator” for college and debt. Like – calculate your likely starting salary by checking the average starting salary for your major at your school and multiplying it by “placement percentage”. (It’s great if you can start at $80k, but what if only 20% of graduates get a job?)
So, maybe don’t borrow more than that amount, or more than 2x that amount. It should be something you can reasonably pay off in 5 years if you are frugal. I don’t think most kids think about this these days, and most parents don’t understand. Aside from medicine, engineering, accounting, etc. – many jobs REQUIRE a degree, but they still pay crap. So don’t bother going to some private school – get a job, do 2-3 years at community college first. No longer is a “degree” a guarantee of a good paying job.
I guess I borrowed an amount about 60% of my starting salary in the Navy. I paid my loans off in 4 years, partially by living in a drafty basement of a house in the DC area and eating a lot of pasta.
Of course we are doing well enough that our kids won’t get any financial aid. I have friends whose parents didn’t pay (and couldn’t) and who say they aren’t going to pay for their kids. Well, their kids aren’t going to get aid because their parents have a ton of money. So like the one person above who had to take out private loans – that’s crazy. I mean I get it – parents can choose not to pay. But honestly I’d have joined the military, not taken out loans. That sort of calculation should be taught in high school. I signed so many papers in college for loans and am just lucky when I got out that it wasn’t too much. Sheer, stupid luck. Lord knows I wasn’t doing the math.
Sandy Frankel says
I believe that college is 100% worth every penny. My son, graduated from CalArts, in graphic design, after graduation from a State University . CalArts requires you to almost start over (injuring $$$) so he also spent 3 years at CalArts.
It was worth every minute and every penny. It was his dream, and he went to CalArts at age 30-he knew it was well worth it in his field. I cosigned for his private loans ( I know-dumb) . He worked in graphic design in LA-but knew a degree from Cal Arts would place him above the rest…and he was right.
You see-what makes my story a bit unique is that we lost our son just 3 years after he graduated. He moved to NYC to work as a Sr designer for NBC. A dream. He reached his dream. He passed away in his early 30’s. Wells Fargo forgave his student loan. So-yes, this debt and his college degree was priceless to us. He realized his dream, even if for only a few short years. Don’t ever let money keep you from going for what you dream for. Just go forward with life and dreams. I am so grateful that I signed for that loan and supported his dream…you only get one chance…
Claudette says
Sandy, your story is priceless. I’m so sorry you lost your son, but how wonderful that you gained such beautiful insight. Thank you for sharing b
Gerri says
I have 1 kid that just graduated college and is a CDA (dental). We forked out $14000 painful hardworking dollars as we felt this was a positive investment toward our kid. Why? She did her research, Her career choice is in demand and the average entry level wage rate is $22 per hour. Her start rate at her FT job is $25 . She is set for a comfortable living as long as she manages her finances.
I strongly believe in a higher education but not necessarily a degree. If you don’t know what career path you want then obtain a basic certificate the you can grow with. I started with Medical Office Administration diploma while working FT, then added a business admin certificate, raised my babies, and now I’m working on my Accounting diploma 1 course at a time.
I have always had a job in a health related work environment. I also take 1 course or class per year that will enhance my resume. I am not getting any younger and I don’t believe in long term job security.
I feel if I invest a few hundred dollars on myself every year that this will always allow me to have stronger job options then if I don’t upgrade as I age.
MY set rules-
1-Kids must research their career choices- the average wage, demand, education required etc. If what they choose to take will just give them the average wage compared to 2 year or 3 years of on the job experience then is it worth their debt load or my investment in them?
2- So higher education is happening? Then its their FT job to apply for whatever grant, scholarship etc.
3- While the kid is working toward that diploma they need to get a job in the field even if its cleaning that dental office. Why? because it relates and connects you directly to your chosen career. Its already one foot in the door for them.
I believe every person should have the right and means to higher education with a livable debt load. Graduating with a large debt load can be and too often it is another mortgage on its own.
Katie W says
I definitely agree with working in your field while you’re in school. I got my degree in civil engineering with a focus on traffic/transportation. The summer before my senior year I worked for the Texas DOT as a part of a survey crew. Then, in my senior year I worked for TTI (Texas Transportation Institute) who does a TON of research. I was simply a student worker who fiddled with spreadsheets. Having TTI and TxDOT on my resume though was indispensable in getting both of the FT jobs I’ve had.
Erin says
Several have said what I would have said, but one thing has been left out that I now believe in. In Europe, many kids take a “gap year” right out of high school where they travel or work a trade before starting college. I went straight to college after graduating, lasted two years, then took a year off because I just didn’t know what I wanted to major in. That year off was pivotal for me, helping me to narrow down my interests and commit. The rest of my college education was focused and rewarding. I’m going to encourage our kids to consider taking a gap year so they can have a break from the intensity of studying and consider all their options. As others have said, we’re also going to encourage them to keep an open mind about learning a trade, go to community college first to get their core requirements met, have them live at home and go to a state school if they decide to go for it. I want to avoid saddling them with a huge debt in whatever way we can.
Jen Y says
I went two yrs & dropped out – I went to college to party. My husband graduated with a bachelor’s degree – neither of us had any debt at all. We both paid with scholarships & grants. My husband with a little help from his parents. He graduated in 1984 & says no, his degree wasn’t worth going. He never used it. But he says it WAS worth going to college to find a wife 😉 He says that jokingly but he’s really pretty serious about it. (finding a spouse seems to be impossible for young people today too.)
Fast forward 30 yrs….our son did not go to college. We saved for college for him but did not pressure him to go – not too much! He went to work right out of high school in a job that paid so little we had to buy gas for him to get to work. Then he took a manufacturing job for a major company – the same one my husband works for.
So at 18 yrs old he started his 401k & paid for his own health insurance. He married at 20, bought a house at 21 & his first new family car at 22. He & his wife’s total debt is about 30% of their net income. I do realize he’s very lucky to have such a good job with great benefits & no college degree but I also believe that if students who have no desire to go to college will go into trades or the same type of job he chose, they can still do very well.
He’s worked long enough now that he’s considering going to school. He’s seen the jobs available in the company that he wants & knows what he needs to do to get there. He’s also looking at skills that will transfer in our area just in case he needs to change jobs in the future – he doesn’t want to leave the hometown he grew up in.
We need to change our mindset about what success is – it’s not always a college degree though obviously for some careers it’s needed. It can be college, but those who choose a different path..live within their budgets(It is possible), have great relationships, contribute to the community..all without a degree. That’s a great picture of success as well. All the soft majors that kids get now don’t help them at all prepare to live in the real world.
I say encourage your children to be hard workers & try everything they can while they’re young. We just told our son to find a job, any job. You may hate your first few jobs but that’s what motivates you to either work harder at finding a better job or to get serious about training for a better job.
WendyinCA says
We’ve encouraged both our boys to go the community college route. It’s a drop in the bucket comparatively, and they can transfer to a 4-year school for roughly half the cost. I was a transfer student myself and saved a boatload of $$.
Kristina says
Also, the personal instruction you get at a community college is priceless.
Lynne says
Jen and Erin hit a key point. A college degree has a timing component. First, some people need that gap year to be in a place where they can make choices that represent long-term value to them. Second, the value of even a well-chosen degree might not be evident right away. Some degrees are stepping stones to a desired career path (like going to law or medical school) or are essential for the job ( like teaching), so moving right to college out of high school might make sense if that’s the goal. If a college degree isn’t needed for the first job, waiting a while and either going full time at a later time, or taking courses over a period of years can get you the degree while avoiding crushing debt. The value of the degree might not be an immediate raise or promotion, but as several people here noted, down the road, having that degree can mean greater opportunities and higher earnings. Personally, I went to college in the early 1970s, getting my degree in 3 years on my way to law school. My three years in a private residential college cost about $10,000 altogether and I was so blessed that my parents paid it. I was so lucky to beat the meteoric rise in the cost of higher education.
Alan says
I graduated college in 1989. I worked at least part time during those years and lived at home. I was not too interested in the social aspect of college at all. I was able to save money because my parents were gracious enough to let me live at home at no cost. I graduated debt free. I wouldn’t change a thing about that.
I encourage my children to do the same and also have them take advantage of the dual high school/college credit program available in our state where they can take college classes for free while in high school and earn credits in HS and college at the same time. If you are diligent about taking advantage of this program you can wipe out the cost of about 2 years of college.
In today’s environment community college or technical schools might be a more affordable option to the traditional four year degree. I hate to see young people just out of college owing as much as a 30 year mortgage for the previous 4 years of education.
Why do you go to college? Basically to better you prospective employment opportunities. The whole social part of college should be way down the list for reasons to attend. Where you go to school seldom matters unless you are in certain fields such as medicine or law where the academic institution may play a role in your future employment opportunities. Just my 2 cents.
mildred lane says
I was lucky to be able to go to a 3 year nursing school and be a registered nurse w/ scholarships. No debt.
Henrietta says
I have a degree in civil engineering and it was worth it to me, I graduated college with about 15K in student loan debt. Fortunately, engineeers are in high demand, and I ended up with an engineering job that payed very very well. I am currently on sabbatical (I quit my job) and am looking for another engineering job. My husband has a PhD in Chemical Engineering and has zero debt. Yes, our degrees were worth it, even though I did not become a civil engineer (I became a nuclear engineer), the engineering degree definitely opened alot of doors for me.
Elizabeth Schroer says
I attended Auburn university and finished with $15,000 in student loans. I took the smallest amount possible to pay my tuition and paid it off in 6 years. I think too many people are taking too much loan out and not working during school to pay for living expenses. I found that I studied better working 30 hrs a week than when I was just going to school. If you choose an affordable in state school and work during, college is affordable!
connie says
If you have to get loans, some degrees are not worth it. Won’t make enough to pay off debt. My children took college classes in high school and summers at a local JC. You can take two years at JC.
We saved and sacrificed to pay for our children’s college education so they could graduate debt free. (They attended state universities ). At the time, other parents would buy new cars for their kids, but take out loans for college. Only after graduating and seeing the debt others had did my children understand.
I see many ways that students could reduce the amount of loans they have to take but most are unwilling to do it. I see friends of my kids with massive debt buying new homes, etc.. instead of living frugally for a few years and getting rid of the debt. A doctor once told me that after he graduated he continued to live like a med student until he had his debt paid off.
Ultimately, they must all realize it is a choice and they will have to live with the consequences of that choice and not whine and expect someone to bail them out for their choices. Think about the debt you will have and what your degree will pay and use all avenues to reduce that debt to the minimum.
Gina says
Was my college worth it? Totally. But I made some very foresighted decisions, was a highly motivated teen and picked a profitable degree field.
1. I chose to stay at the state school for undergrad where, because I was a good performing high school student my tuition was almost free. As long as you had something like a 3.5 gpa, tuition rates for normal load of 4 years were covered. I also graduated high school early and went to the “alternative” school for my last which allowed classes at the community in college for anything but history and English, that on top of night school starting my freshman year allowed me to graduate a year early and start college at the calculus level. That meant even for my doctorate, I only needed one math class in college! I continued to live at home through undergrad, driving a beater manual pickup truck and shopping at thrift stores for clothes. I bought books used or not at all and brought my own lunch to school.
2. For graduate school I chose a cheap school, one of the cheaper ones in the country, who I was lucky to be able to get in state tuition rates for because my father was a service member and I was still “young” despite the fact that I had graduated high school in at attended undergrad in another state. I had the benefit of free rent in a hike my father owned… Provided I played landlord to the other tenants and collected rent etc. I got lucky there. I also found used needles on the sidewalk in front of my house and had shots fired out front once, and cops in the neighborhood regularly. I drove my beater truck u too it died, then bought a used Lexus for 10 grand which I drove for two years after graduating until the transmission went out and would have cost more. Repair than I paid for the vehicle. I also took any opportunity I could to eat free food and take advantage of collefe student perks : free seminar with dinner at a restaurant with dinner for grad students! Sign me up. Student meeting and a whole pizza didn’t get eaten? I’m not above left overs. Coffee at Starbucks or the coffee cart? Nah, that’s what they made the one liter Aladdin thermos for.
3. When I graduated I pretended nothing different had happened with my life money wise. No new phones, no new computers, no new cars. My big gift to myself for graduation was to visit the national parks with my now husband on our cross country drive back with my last remaining stuff. The spring break before I had borrowed my fathers truck and drove home to my boyfriend 19 hours away with a tower of boxes in the back and a tarp. I had also been hauling things home on my annual summer drive for the last two summers of 4 year grad/doctoral school. I didn’t do fancy trips in college – I went home to my boyfriend once a year in the summer. My fellow students didn’t believe he existed or that I was in a committed relationship.
Anyways, I took the best job I could after school I could money wise, which was 3 hours from home. I had to get an apartment to stay in whole worked 9’on (really 6 on 1 off on 2 on) then 5 off in a row. And I took up a job in town to work 1-3 days during my five days off, and picked up any available overtime at my full time job. Some of that extra savings was offset by having to rent an apartment in a tiny town for the same amount as we rented a pretty nice home in the city, but it paid off. Had over 30k in student loans paid off in the first year. Then my old Lexus died, and I bought another used. I paid that at 35k off in less than a year too.
A little over a year after graduating me and my husband had our “real” wedding. We got married at the court house much earlier for financial and insurance reasons. We planned and paid for the whole event at a vacation rental a state a way. Kept it small and invited only about 15 people who we paid lodging for. Then we paid for our honeymoon to Hawaii for 2 weeks on 2 islands with 4 different vacation rentals.
It’s all about choices. Durin the time I never felt like I was working excessively to save money I’m just frugal. I also made sure what I was doing was worth it beforehand. It’s not my dream job… But what is? I garden and do pottery on the side. Those are my loves. Work is fulfilling and I do a good job and that’s sufficent.
Kids need to wait until they know what they want to do and make good choices they are committed to, not their parents. And live like you’re poor until you’re really not!
Emily says
No one has mentioned the ridiculous amount it costs for professionals to get a degree. Doctors, Lawyers, Professors, and many more, all have to pursue advanced degrees in order to have jobs. Most advanced degrees take lots more time and are much more expensive that undergraduate degrees. As a society we cannot function without these individuals, but they are often saddled with huge amounts of debt that will take decades to pay off.
I personally know many people with 200-300 thousand dollars in school debt from advanced degrees alone. Although most professionals make more money than someone without any degree or even more than someone with just a bachelors degree; by the time you figure in lost income potential on the years it takes to achieve the education, and the huge amount of debt they have to pay off, their income becomes much less impressive.
I highly value education, and will encourage my children to go to college. But I will work hard to get them as much education for as little a price as possible and hope they will enter a field where they can make a good wage.
Cindi says
I took college classes in high school, placed out of several, and took summer classes in order to graduate a year early, which saved a lot of money. I worked and had a couple of scholarships, so graduated without debt. I had a business degree and was able to get a job right away, so for me college was worth it.
However, I know so many people who come out of school with big debt and a degree for which there is no demand. When my husband and I owned our own business — commercial heating and air conditioning — we had so much trouble finding skilled techs. These are jobs that pay really good wages — $26 an hour and up.
My brother didn’t go to college, but he has worked as a mechanic for Toyota most of his life and makes six figures a year with bonuses, etc.
I wish more young people would go to technical school and trade schools. There are good jobs out there that are hungry for skilled workers.
Lea says
I’m a university professor in a science field and this is a really hot topic – costs keep going up and people keep loading up with debt.
A couple of “commonly known” pieces of information about college/university that aren’t adequately expressed anymore that need to be shared:
1. Never, ever take on more debt than your first year salary will be after you graduate. Work, transfer credits, go part-time, go to a cheaper university etc. Truly, unless you’re in a very specialized field where your degree is from really doesn’t matter much – check to see if your program is accredited in your field and you’re good to go!
2 Check to see what materials are required and which aren’t. What can you rent? Borrow from the library? Borrow from a friend? And now, what comes with the electronic packages – usually an e-text is included that allows for note taking on the pages (think the electronic post-it-note type thing). Check Amazon, Used book stores, etc. What is simply optional – sometimes there’s 8 texts and you only need one. For lit classes often times the public library is a good choice for novels. Just double check with the professor if your text edition is older, especially in areas that change rapidly (biology, business, finance, law, etc.)
3. Use the university career services offices (they used to be called placement offices in some cases) and on-campus career fairs! Many people don’t realize that these options exist! Career services have job opening listings that many state offices don’t (more professional options typically) and help with things like resumes, interview practices, tips on body language and dressing and that sort of thing. Students who use these services are more successful at finding a job that actually uses their degree than those who don’t – especially in fields where degrees are common or have many applications. You do have to be a student to use these in many cases so start looking in your 3rd or 2nd-to-last semester rather than waiting until you graduate.
4. Think outside the box when you apply. Many areas have job postings that list “A BA/BS in ______ or equivalent”. A historian with the state or a museum for example may list a history degree but you have a degree in literature that specialized in local authors and you took local/state history classes for your gen ed requirement . Apply! And push your knowledge of local authors and local history. A history or lit degree gives you skills in research and pattern recognition and comparison that can be handy in many fields. A degree in math or science can apply to banking or finance when you look at things like long-term trend prediction and market fluctuation. Think about the SKILLS you learned, not necessarily what your degree is in. If you can do that job, apply! And push the skills you learned, not what your degree is in.
Okay, I’ll get off my soap box now.
Great input everyone – as a professor I loved reading what people thought of their degrees. And as a science professor who teaches a lot of engineers, it was fun to see how many engineers are here! 🙂
Thanks Mavis,
Lea
Frau Rosen says
I graduated from the largest state university in my state in the late 80’s with no debt. I was very burned out after being a perfectionist with excellent grades in high school, so I went to community college my first year. (My parents were horrified, they thought that wasn’t good enough for me.) After I never got a grade less than 4.0 in my year there, I did realize it wasn’t challenging enough for me. I transferred in my sophomore year and from then on worked part time, full time when I could, and lived at home with free rent. My parents paid half my tuition and I paid the other half and for books. etc. My degree was in German (language, history, literature) so I haven’t really used it except when traveling there (which I did once a year for 10 years). I didn’t want to teach or translate. My parents had a travel business and I worked for them for 13 years and then worked part time for a local city hall until I was lucky enough to stay home with my child. I think my father thinks me getting a degree and then being a stay-at-home mom was a waste of money, but I disagree completely. We are homeschoolers and I think having the degree has helped me a lot as a parent and a citizen of this planet. That said, I definitely encourage my son to look at alternatives to traditional college. It’s just not possible any more to work your way through as I did. The costs have risen too dramatically. My son has a natural talent for computer programming and I hope he pursues that. But that doesn’t mean he has to get a 4 year degree at Stanford. Nowadays, there are computer boot camps and other shorter programs that he could do for a lot less money than a 4 year degree, not to mention online options are springing up all the time. Things will change a lot in the few years between now and when he is old enough to make this decision. I also think travel is a great education. I’ve always said, I don’t care if he’s a janitor, as long as he is happy. He also has an entrepreneurial bent and a great head for business, plus we are raising him to be frugal and content without society’s consumerist craziness, so I think he will set his own standards for success. There is a book by Blake Boles called “Better Than College: How to Build a Successful Life Without a Four-Year Degree” which I recommend.